JANINE COHEN: Last year more than 100 elderly people went to Mexico to buy a lethal drug which they then smuggled back into Australia.

ANONYMOUS WOMAN: If I had been caught and put into prison I felt I still was justified in doing what I had done, getting the Nembutal, because I think it's my right.

JANINE COHEN: Most of these elderly law-breakers don't have a terminal or chronic illness. They plan to take the drug when they're tired of life, when they can no longer look after themselves.

RUTH MACKINNON: I just want it in the cupboard so that when the time comes I can reach for it.

JANINE COHEN: Some elderly people too frail to make the trip to Mexico have turned to other drastic means. They've been making the lethal drug Nembutal in backyard laboratories. If you believe in something, you should be prepared to stand up and face the consequences.

JANINE COHEN: A lot of people would say if you're working in a backyard laboratory to produce an illicit substance, you all deserve to go to jail.

ED BROWN: Well, if so, so be it. I'll serve my time.

BRON NORMAN: It's outrageous that we've been forced into this position because we can't legally obtain a drug that will give us a peaceful death when we want one. It's not illegal to end your life, why is it illegal to have the drug that will do it?

JANINE COHEN: Should there be a pill available to elderly people so they can suicide?

CHIANG LIM, RIGHT TO LIFE ASSOCIATION: No, there shouldn't be. Simply because that's actually society basically saying that they have no value.

JANINE COHEN: Tonight, Four Corners talks to a vocal minority of elderly who plan to suicide when faced with going into nursing homes. Some are taking their complaints to Parliament, while others are going much further. They're committing civil disobedience and breaking laws in what appears to be the next movement to grow out of the euthanasia debate. Four Corners investigates the extreme measures these senior citizens are taking. Muriel Arnott has dedicated much of her life to helping the elderly. Until recently, she chaired the board of this upmarket aged care facility in Melbourne. A physiotherapist, she's worked with the elderly and been a team leader of Meal on Wheels for 30 years. Today, Muriel Arnott is visiting her 88-year-old mother who was recently admitted into this home after she could no longer care for herself. Muriel Arnott spent years helping to get this aged care facility off the ground but it's not what she wants for herself.

MURIEL ARNOTT: I don't want to come here in my old age because I want another choice for my life. I am certainly thrilled that people who want to come here can have this level of care and in this pleasant environment and the dignity that everything, the environment and the care that they get provides for them, but it's not for me. You're so docile compared to what you used to be...

JANINE COHEN: The Melbourne widow is one of a number of ageing Australians planning to suicide when they can longer look after themselves.

MURIEL ARNOTT: I accept the journey of life and I accept that that journey has an end. I don't accept the fact that the journey is extended unnaturally and I hope that my family will have the respect for me and also understand that I want to have a finalisation of my life at a point at which I still have dignity.

JANINE COHEN: Muriel Arnott is very close to her sons and their families.

CHRIS ARNOTT, MURIEL'S SON: I love my mother enormously and she has a huge involvement in our day-to-day lives, from assisting us with the care of our daughter, through to just being there as part of a close-knit family.

JANINE COHEN: Chris Arnott respects his mother's right to one day take her own life.

CHRIS ARNOTT, MURIEL'S SON: I think she's seen the consequences of not having that choice, particularly through her professional career, and she would like to have that choice to end her life at a time of her choosing.

JANINE COHEN: Did you ever try and talk her out of it?

CHRIS ARNOTT, MURIEL'S SON: Never.

JANINE COHEN: At 66, Muriel Arnott is a long way off wanting to die.

MURIEL ARNOTT: I don't want to pinpoint an age, a day, a year or anything. I just want to know that when I feel that this is the right time for me then I know what my options are.

JANINE COHEN: Do you know how your mother plans to end her life?

CHRIS ARNOTT, MURIEL'S SON: No, I don't.

JANINE COHEN: Do you want to know?

CHRIS ARNOTT, MURIEL'S SON: Ah, I'm sure that as the time gets closer, it may well be a topic of discussion.

JANINE COHEN: Would you like to be there?

CHRIS ARNOTT, MURIEL'S SON: If possible.

JANINE COHEN: It's not a crime in Australia to suicide but it's a crime to assist someone else. For that reason many families are cautious about being present at the suicide for fear of being implicated in the death. Muriel Arnott is well aware of the dangers.

MURIEL ARNOTT: I have to make the choice because society, the laws, do not allow that anybody to assist me at that point, so I have to be physically and mentally capable.

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: Any drug that you take to end life, taken by mouth, the general recommendation is that an anti-vomiting drug be taken.

JANINE COHEN: Muriel Arnott will be prepared when the times comes, although she's reluctant to talk about what method she intends to employ. So that she's organised, she along with thousands of other ageing Australians, have been going to end-of-life workshops, run by controversial euthanasia advocate Philip Nitschke. Those attending all have one thing in common.

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: If you would be a person who would be even thinking along the lines of taking your own life when you can no longer look after yourself or when you are forced to go into a nursing home. Anyone here of that position? It's pretty clear it's overwhelming.

JANINE COHEN: I think that the group who attend the workshops are vitally active, engaged, engaging, interesting people. And who have the capacity to seek out an opportunity to provide them with choices.

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: We've actually put all of the information that was in the workshop series last year into this book...

JANINE COHEN: It's not a movement the Right to Life Association likes. Earlier this year its complaints led to the banning of a book by Philip Nitschke which had details of suicide methods.

CHIANG LIM, RIGHT TO LIFE ASSOCIATION: I think these people who come to Nitschke may have, for...potentially the wrong reasons, find themselves in no other circumstances but to consider suicide. My concern is, basically, Nitschke doesn't even help them to explore other positive ways of addressing their issues.

JANINE COHEN: Have you ever talked anyone out of suicide?

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: Oh, many times, many times. This idea that we've got this huge pool of very vulnerable, fragile people out there is to do a grave disservice to, I think, and to paternalise, patronise ah...the integrity and the ability of our elderly folk who know exactly what they're doing. Now, we don't advocate hanging. That is a grim horrible death. But we..

JANINE COHEN: The Australian Medical Association has concerns about the movement too.

DR ROSANNA CAPOLINGUA, AUSTRALIAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: There's a high level of interest in ending of life because there's such a big... push and insight into the fact that life in a later age perhaps has no value, or is a burden, or is undignified, or costs money to the health system. With all those negative messages with people who have a high level of education, in particular, who process those messages and look at them and say, "Goodness, the best solution is to end my life." I'm not surprised people are attending the workshops.

JANINE COHEN: Like Muriel Arnott, many of those people at the workshops have a medical background. Now, you've both been nurses, yet you want the right to end your own life rather than go into a nursing home or leave your own family home? Why?

JUNE, 80: Well, it's important to me. I just don't want to end up as a vegetable after having a stroke or anything ghastly like that. I know people who have and, of course, I've seen hundreds of them, and they live on for years.

THERESA, 86: Well, if I won't have the quality of life then it's no use to live.

JANINE COHEN: So how would you do it, any idea?

THERESA, 86: Well, I'm already prepared. And I have the next best to Nembutal.

JANINE COHEN: What's that?

THERESA, 86: Oh, I don't even know the name. It's in my filing cabinet, hidden away.

JANINE COHEN: But why not grow old? Why not?

JUNE, 80: I'm old now. (Laughs)

DR RICHARD OPIE: We're not supposed to be a censorial society, but we sure are as far as suicide's concerned, or ending your own life.

JANINE COHEN: Retired surgeon and GP Richard Opie has been to two suicide workshops in Sydney.

DR RICHARD OPIE: I'm all in favour of people who want to terminate their lives at a suitable time and I think anybody over 90 must have a suitable time. Why should they be prevented from doing it? It's just ridiculous.

JANINE COHEN: Richard Opie, a WWII veteran, has no immediate plans to take his life. At 90 he's too active for that. He swims every day, plays golf twice a week, goes to the gym, plays bridge, and belongs to a book club.

DR RICHARD OPIE: Just being alive and looking at the birds and the bees and the trees, it's a source of great pleasure. Anybody who doesn't enjoy being alive, I feel sorry for them.

JANINE COHEN: Is Richard afraid of growing old?

JULIA OPIE, RICHARD'S WIFE: No. He's old. Richard's old. He's not afraid of growing old. No, he's afraid of being disabled, mainly, I think.

DR RICHARD OPIE: The reason why anybody who's not depressed wants to terminate his own life is the fact that... the very fact of living becomes so uncomfortable that you don't want to keep on doing it.

JANINE COHEN: How many years have you got left?

DR RICHARD OPIE: Well, um... I would think, two.

JANINE COHEN: Julia thinks you'll live till you're 100.

DR RICHARD OPIE: Well, Julie was an opt... She's an optimist.

JANINE COHEN: Why only two?

DR RICHARD OPIE: Well, I find... (Coughs) I find I am getting increasingly incapacitated, un...particularly compared with when... For instance, when I was 80, the last 10 years make a big difference. And the last two years has made quite a difference too.

JANINE COHEN: Some experts believe most elderly people like Richard Opie will not suicide as they'll lose the capacity before they have a chance to act.

PROFESSOR TONY BROE, GERIATRICIAN: I'm still unconvinced that it's possible to determine the moment in that long fatal illness, which is life, when you should take your life if you're fit and healthy. I just think that's...too hard.

JANINE COHEN: Do you think that is a possibility with you, that you could lose capacity?

DR RICHARD OPIE: Yes, I think that's a real possibility. For that reason, I would be prepared to advance it a little bit if I had to.

JULIA OPIE, RICHARD'S WIFE: I've got every faith in him. I think that... he's not going to do it lightly, and he's not going to do it just because something's too difficult. He does...gets through life every day with chronic pain and arthritic problems. So when he does do it, it'll be his decision and he will know when the time has come. He just does not want to be disabled.

JANINE COHEN: Is he depressed?

JULIA OPIE, RICHARD'S WIFE: No. He's the original party boy. (Laughs) No, Richard's a very social being. He's not depressed, not at all.

JANINE COHEN: 1100 elderly Australians, mostly men, suicided in the five years to 2005. They often took their lives using violent methods mostly by hanging or shooting themselves. Richard Opie plans to die peacefully.

JULIA OPIE, RICHARD'S WIFE: I would find it traumatic if he chose a violent path. And have you thought about how you would do that?

DR RICHARD OPIE: Oh, yes, I've got it worked out. Yeah.

JANINE COHEN: How?

JULIA OPIE, RICHARD'S WIFE: Well, I'd rather not discuss that because... it might give a few other people ideas and we might have the 'thought police' around here searching the house or doing something stupid like that.

JANINE COHEN: Ed Brown's been fighting prostate cancer for years but he says he can't fight old age. He's 83.

ED BROWN: While ever you've got some enjoyment in life, people will cling to life and hang on to it. It's when the quality of life is gone, nowhere the essential things you can only do for yourself until you become an invalid, well, you stick to life.

JANINE COHEN: Ed Brown is not religious and has no qualms with taking his own life if faced with going into a nursing home. His wife Coral has similar plans.

ED BROWN: Once my quality of life has gone to the stage where I can't live my life as I want, I won't want to hang around.

JANINE COHEN: When do you plan to do this?

ED BROWN: Well, I don't know. It might be next year, it might be five years. I've got no idea.

JANINE COHEN: Ed and his son Richard are very close but they don't see eye-to-eye on this issue.

RICHARD BROWN, ED'S SON: You went to Canberra for the euthanasia conference?

ED BROWN: Yes, the Day of Shame, they called it. Two busloads of people went to Canberra. The most common form of suicide amongst old people is hanging themselves. What a dreadful thing - for your loved ones to come and find you hanging. I couldn't do that. But I will find a way.

RICHARD BROWN, ED'S SON: If we get a feeling of compulsion about it, I wouldn't feel comfortable with that. His life is his responsibility. I love him very, very much. It's a subject that is very emotional for me. It's one that I would struggle with to talk to him. I'd be struggling with not coming to tears with it.

JANINE COHEN: Richard, a practising Christian, believes through suffering, people grow just as Jesus Christ did.

RICHARD BROWN, ED'S SON: It is part of life. It's an unpleasant part but I think that most psychologists, psychiatrists would agree that the major growth we have personally is through suffering. Christianity isn't about being comfortable and doing what pleases you. It's about realising our life on this earth is a gift and we have a responsibility to live responsibly.

ED BROWN: It's not my belief. I don't believe suffering does anybody any good and people should be able to end it one way or the other.

JANINE COHEN: Richard says that life is a gift and it's not up to an individual to decide when it ends.

ED BROWN: That's a religious belief. Most religions believe that. I'm not religious. If they believe that, good luck to them but I believe that life ends when all quality's gone out of it. That's the time.

JANINE COHEN: A constant question regarding old people wanting to suicide is - do they feel they're a burden?

DR ROSANNA CAPOLINGUA, AUSTRALIAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: They don't want to be putting other people under pressure, needing to care for them. They don't like their options for continuing life, and so they suicide. I think the suicide then is not the answer. We need to find answers about how to make them feel differently about themselves and feel valuable so they don't want to choose death.

RICHARD BROWN, ED'S SON: How does he feel about being dependent on others? Maybe that's a big question, one that I haven't really discussed with him in detail. He's an independent person and maybe his fear is being dependent on others more so than other things.

ED BROWN: No, that's not a major factor with me at all. I wouldn't want to be a burden on other people but I'd feel I'd be a burden on myself if I couldn't do the things I want to do with myself. I've always been fairly independent and I want to remain that way.

JANINE COHEN: Ed's son Richard has two teenaged daughters.

RICHARD BROWN, ED'S SON: When it comes to the kids, in a way, as a parent, I want to protect them. But they also need to know what's going on so I'm not going to protect them all that much. I will tell them what is happening.

JANINE COHEN: How do you think Richard explains to the grandchildren that the grandparents have taken their own lives? How do you go through that process?

ED BROWN: I should imagine it would be rather different for Richard.

JANINE COHEN: Ed Brown has some equipment which he'll use to suffocate himself if he can't get something else. His son is torn. He doesn't want his father to suicide yet he hates the thought of him dying alone. You said if you thought it would make a difference, you would camp outside your father's house.

RICHARD BROWN, ED'S SON: If I thought it would make a difference, yeah. I'd do what had to be done.

ED BROWN: I don't think he'd go to those extremes but if he did, it wouldn't make any difference. I'd hope he'd come in and be with me when it happened. I can hope for that.

JANINE COHEN: 91-year-old Bill Cooper has been rehearsing his suicide method but he won't do anything while he is the primary carer for his wife Joyce, who has Alzheimer's Disease. Are you still planning to take your own life?

BILL COOPER: Yes. It's on hold, unfortunately, while I'm a carer. You feel responsible for another person. Unfortunately I can't shake that feeling of responsibility and I feel that when my wife finally doesn't recognise me and I can't do anything for her, I still have time to go but I feel that will allow me to go as well.

DOLORES PERRY, BILL'S DAUGHTER: I think that if you can see what happens to people when they lose dignity and they're relying on others, clearly he's had a look at that and felt that that's not where he wants to be.

JANINE COHEN: Bill Cooper's greatest fear is that one day he will collapse and wake up in a nursing home.

BILL COOPER: When you're old, you usually collapse in the shower. You're taken away to the hospital and from there on, you're history. You're under the dictatorship of the medical profession. They tell you what to do and they order you about. Of course, you're at a stage where you can't do much about it.

DR ROSANNA CAPOLINGUA, AUSTRALIAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: Perhaps we need to be thinking of the fact that providing care is, in fact, a very dignified thing, receiving care from our own human kind is indeed something that happens with dignity and that whole process of coming to the end of life when you are needing care perhaps is something that enriches our society.

JANINE COHEN: A few years ago Bill Cooper started researching how to end his life. He's read many books and he's been to an end-of-life workshop.

BILL COOPER: I am not going to use this tomorrow. I might have to keep this as an insurance for the future - that might be some years down the track.

JANINE COHEN: The retired public servant has decided he will use a complicated mechanical method that will result in suffocation.

BILL COOPER: You test everything to see that it is working and going well. In my case, certainly I would have rehearsed it many times. And no one can do this properly and effectively unless they've made a detailed study of it so they have the right procedures, the right techniques and the right equipment. My main fear is that people don't die easily, they convulse. I'm no expert in these matters but in the next, I'd be concerned mainly that I might make a jerky movement that might upset the applecart.

DOLORES PERRY, BILL'S DAUGHTER: He's actually going to get this right when he does it and in fact if you don't get it right, my understanding is that, you know, he could leave himself in a more vulnerable or worse position, but the fact that he has to actually practise this is a pretty sad indictment on society, I think.

BILL COOPER: I think I am the only sane person and everyone else is mad. But still, I don't want to be sitting around nursing homes, month in and month out, living a miserable life. I can't see any life in that at all.

PROFESSOR TONY BROE, GERIATRICIAN: Most of the figures I know say that about 70 per cent of people across the board think you should be allowed to kill yourself if you're faced with serious alternatives, and most people realise that while nursing homes are good, they're not ideal.

PROFESSOR SOL ENCEL, SOCIOLOGIST: But there again, like so many other things in life, it's a matter of class differences. The more affluent you are the better the grade of aged care you're going to get.

JANINE COHEN: Lorna Price, who lives in the exclusive Sydney suburb of Mosman, won't be using the same suicide method as Bill Cooper. Instead she wants one day to have access to a pill.

LORNA PRICE: The pill is not available which is why I'm prepared to speak up. I think it should be available and I think there's a big need for it. People are living longer and longer, our lives are being drawn out, there's a lot of money being spent on extending our lives but no money available at all to end them if we want to.

JANINE COHEN: After her husband died 25 years ago, Lorna Price became interested in learning how to end her own life when she could no longer care for herself. What she discovered was there were few peaceful ways that were legally available.

LORNA PRICE: I guess I've always planned, and my husband was a planner. I just don't want to be able to not look after myself, achieving things in my life - not big things like Nobel prizes but just weeding the garden, something like that - I think that's a tremendous contribution to happiness. And to just be inert and not do anything, not to cook your own dinner, not to choose what you're going to wear, not be able to wash yourself even, I think they are the main factors.

JANINE COHEN: Some doctors raise depression as a factor in suicide. And they say depression often goes undetected and untreated in the elderly.

DR ROSANNA CAPOLINGUA, AUSTRALIAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: Depression in the elderly is certainly something that we as clinicians, as doctors, as GPs need to be very aware of and need to have the conversation with our patients about how they're feeling, how they're viewing their lives.

JANINE COHEN: Long-time experts on geriatrics, Professor Sol Encel and Professor Tony Broe disagree.

PROFESSOR SOL ENCEL, SOCIOLOGIST: Depression doesn't start with age, and the evidence is not that older people are more depressed than other, younger people. If older people are more depressed it's for reasons apart from the fact they're over 70 or over 80.

PROFESSOR TONY BROE, GERIATRICIAN: I believe that as long as you're fit and healthy and not disabled, you get more contented and less depressed as you get older.

JANINE COHEN: Are you depressed?

LORNA PRICE: No, I don't think I'm depressed. I get fed up with things, But I can't even think of what I get fed up with. I am sure I would get fed up if I couldn't walk, or couldn't look after myself, but then I can't understand why anybody wouldn't. No, I don't think I'm depressed at all.

JANINE COHEN: Should be talking to a psychiatrist before you decide to... ?

LORNA PRICE: (Laughs) No! I don't think so.

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: One of the big advantages of the liquid form of this drug...

JANINE COHEN: At this Exit workshop in Melbourne, Philip Nitschke takes elderly people step by step through the various suicide methods, not all of which are legal. Of all the ways to kill yourself, he recommends the prohibited drug Nembutal.

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: If you want the best you've got to get Nembutal. There may be something yet to be developed that is better but as of now the best drug for a peaceful end of life choice is Nembutal. It can be injected or it can be simply drunk. I have never seen anyone drink a bottle of this drug and finish their whisky. That's all you need. One bottle.

JANINE COHEN: Almost a decade ago pentobarbitone was removed from sale for human use when a new and less dangerous class of drugs became available. Before that Nembutal, the trade name for the drug, was only available on prescription. Now its use is restricted to veterinarians for euthanasing and sedating animals.

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: It's history. There's an advert out of the 1950s women's magazine. It's a Nembutal advert. That's the Women's Weekly in the 1950s. You may not be able to read it but it says "tops in taste, colour, appeal and miscibility. Nembutal elixir. If you are having trouble with that fractious two year old, a few teaspoons of Nembutal elixir and all your problems are over. That's how common that particular substance was back in the 1950s.

JANINE COHEN: Philip Nitschke is holding up an empty bottle of Nembutal which is virtually impossible to get in Australia. Just possessing the prohibited drug now carries a maximum penalty of two years in prison. But that's no deterrent to many elderly people who go to Tijuana just over the US border in Mexico to buy Nembutal from veterinarian pharmacies. These elderly drug smugglers are all breaking federal customs laws as well as state drugs laws.

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: We've got a lot of experience now. We had over 100 people last year go across to Mexico and come back with this drug successfully to Australia. We've had over 20 people this year go over. By 'we' I mean Exit has. I am not saying there is no difficulty. You have to do things carefully. You can't walk across the border coming back into America and wave the drug around because they'll simply take it off you. It's a prohibited import into America and into Australia. It's a very straightforward process....

JANINE COHEN: Another 100 elderly people are expected to go to Mexico this year. The Exit group run by Philip Nitschke supplies them with maps showing where the drug can be purchased, photographs of what the drug looks like and details about the cost and any changes in labelling. In Tijuana, they know there's an Australian market for Nembutal.

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: ..actually has a sign in the window now which says "Australian veterinarian supplies available here".

CHIANG LIM, RIGHT TO LIFE ASSOCIATION: Philip Nitschke is basically putting these people in harm's way. All he's doing is arming these people with information and then stepping back and letting these people commit a crime. If these people were to actually import and be caught importing these drugs, clearly that's a criminal act that has actually occurred.

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: I don't think giving people access to good information is dangerous. I mean the flip side of that is to say that the only way... a better way is to make sure that no one knows anything, the safest thing to do is to make sure that people are kept completely in the dark and as I've said earlier the only consequence of that is that you end up having people kill themselves in dreadful ways and I think giving people information is not dangerous. What it is it's empowering.

JANINE COHEN: This woman in her 80s recently returned from Tijuana with her single dose of the drug. The elderly drug smuggler doesn't want to be identified.

ANONYMOUS WOMAN: The poverty and the... it's just awful. You really have to go through filthy streets and you find these little shops that are veterinarians but you...they're not in a cluster, you've got to wander around until you think, there's one over there, you go into that and try that. I didn't go with any idea of immediately using this stuff. I just wanted something in case because I enjoy life. I'm busy, I lead a very active life but I just wanted something in my cupboard, my little stash, and it was no problem really getting it in Mexico.

JANINE COHEN: But many elderly people don't want to take the long trip abroad. These people believe an alternative should be offered in Australia.

BRON NORMAN: There's no way for us to get the best drug which is Nembutal. There's no legal way to get it and that's why some people are going to Mexico to try and buy it, but I'm a bit of a do-it-yourselfer so I'd rather have a go at making my own.

JANINE COHEN: As an act of civil disobedience, 20 elderly people have been making Nembutal in a backyard laboratory. They put $2000 each into the project and all want just one single dose of the drug. The manufacturing of an illicit drug carries a maximum penalty of 15 years in prison.

DR ROSANNA CAPOLINGUA, AUSTRALIAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: This shows to me the desperation that we've created in individuals where they believe they need to break the law to have...a way of protest to choose end of life. We have to solve what the desperation is about. We have to relieve them of the need and belief that they should have and need to have the right to choose death over continuing to live.

JANINE COHEN: Should they be prosecuted?

DR ROSANNA CAPOLINGUA, AUSTRALIAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: If people break the law they are prosecuted. Those, that's what happens, so yes indeed. If I break the law I should be prosecuted. That's the law of the land and that's the way it goes.

JANINE COHEN: The complex project started in October 2005 when the elderly people went to a secret location in the southern highlands of NSW where they set up an illegal backyard laboratory. Four Corners was given this footage of Exit members making the drug. Lorna Price was there on the day.

LORNA PRICE: I've still always been very law abiding and so has the whole family. But I've just decided I should stand up and be counted here. I'm not a rebel by nature at all but I think I should stand up and be counted 'cause I do think we should have that possibility of ending our lives gently and peacefully.

JANINE COHEN: You don't mind breaking the law?

BRON NORMAN: I'm normally quite law abiding. I happen to believe this law is wrong and I don't feel that I'm breaking any moral law.

CHIANG LIM, RIGHT TO LIFE ASSOCIATION: In my mind I believe Philip Nitschke is driving the demand for these illegal acts. I think he has passionately decided that these people do want it and he is going to provide the information at any cost.

JANINE COHEN: And is that morally responsible?

CHIANG LIM, RIGHT TO LIFE ASSOCIATION: I think it is morally irresponsible.

JANINE COHEN: Your opponents would say you're driving it, what would you say to that?

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: Well I mean I, people I talk to, people come into our organisation all the time and I mean it wasn't exactly my idea. People came to me and said, "This is what we want", like they knew that this was the drug they want and so the question is, where can we get it from and so we looked at it, we, I was part of the discussion.

JANINE COHEN: That weekend the 20 elderly people took the first step to making Nembutal. They got their information from a wide range of sources.

JOHN EDGE: It was really the blind leading the blind because, you know, what chemistry we learnt at school was long been forgotten.

JANINE COHEN: They had no chemistry background and were using potentially dangerous chemicals including metallic sodium. University students are only allowed to handle the highly reactive chemical under strict supervision.

JOHN EDGE: The great hazard, of course, is if it comes into contact with water. So that was the great concern... because on the weekend we were using a tent and I was watching the weather all the time because I thought if it rains and we are doing this in a tent and water drips down off the roof of the tent onto the substance well, we won't need to make a peaceful pill, we'll all go out with a big bang but, of course, it didn't happen.

JANINE COHEN: It took them two years and many failures.

JOHN EDGE: It's been an extremely frustrating and difficult time and there have been moments when we've had doubts about whether we would get an outcome to it.

JANINE COHEN: This year the group finally succeeded in their attempts to make the illegal drug.

JOHN EDGE: It's been assayed and it's been shown to contain pentobarbital, which is the active ingredient in Nembutal.

JANINE COHEN: What, professionally assayed?

JOHN EDGE: Yes, oh, yes. In accepting we have been involved in what could be described as an illegal activity, and it's made communications via telephones and that something of a no-no.

JANINE COHEN: Some members of the group recently got together. And with this drug, when would you take it?

RUTH MACKINNON: I wouldn't take it until I felt my quality of life was at an end and then if I can get my hands on it I'd, I would be happy to take it.

JANINE COHEN: And has it concerned you that you've been breaking the law?

RUTH MACKINNON: Ah, it has, ah, I don't normally go in for breaking the law.

JANINE COHEN: 96-year-old, Fred Short, is proud of his involvement in the backyard laboratory.

FRED SHORT: I think there should be a legal means for people to choose their own time and place of death and to die with dignity.

JANINE COHEN: And does it worry you that you could possibly go to jail for being involved in this project?

FRED SHORT: No, it never has worried me - mind you at my time of life I probably wouldn't be there for very long.

JANINE COHEN: So, Bron, why did you get involved in this very controversial project?

BRON NORMAN: Because I believe in my right to decide the end of my life the way I have the right to decide the way I live.

JANINE COHEN: Are you sick?

BRON NORMAN: No, not all... I'm very healthy.

JANINE COHEN: So what could you possibly want with this drug at this stage?

BRON NORMAN: I don't need it at this stage but I might need it in the future.

JANINE COHEN: So you might need it if you get old and frail and can't look after yourself, is that it?

BRON NORMAN: Yes.

RUTH MACKINNON: I do not want to be locked up in a nursing home where all you get is bingo or sing-songs. That's about it.

JANINE COHEN: The liquid Nembutal has been crystallised and is about to be sent to 16 members of the group. Now Dawn, your Nembutal might be arriving very soon, when are you going to take it?

DAWN POYNTER: When I'm ready, when I'm told I can't look after myself.

JANINE COHEN: Does that mean if you've got the drug handy, that you re likely take it earlier?

DAWN POYNTER: Heavens no - and it can't be earlier at 82, can it?

JANINE COHEN: Four Corners has been told there are about 800 elderly people waiting to get involved in making Nembutal in backyard laboratories across Australia. At least four separate projects are about to start in Perth, Sydney, Wollongong and Melbourne. And why such a big queue of people waiting?

JOHN EDGE: Well, I, I think this comes about because of the substance - Nembutal. It's the holy grail of self-deliverance.

DR PHILIP NITSCHKE, EXIT AUSTRALIA: I don't doubt that there will be people who will find their ways into the law courts before this issue is resolved, ah, not just with this strategy, but other strategies. I mean, this is an ongoing strategy, this peaceful pill project.

JANINE COHEN: Does it concern you that authorities might see this as a, sort of, opening the floodgates and lots of illicit backyard laboratories starting up, it might provoke them into taking action?

JOHN EDGE: Well, yes, I can't speak for what the authorities will do but it may well lead to some action and from what I can see, the people that I have spoken to in these groups that are forming all are very much aware of that and they're prepared to go ahead.

JANINE COHEN: Ed Brown is one of those who wants to get involved no matter what the personal cost.

ED BROWN: I put my name forward for it and I hope I'll be chosen. But there's about 1,000 people wanting to get in on it so only the lucky ones will be chosen.

JANINE COHEN: And would you be prepared to go to jail for your beliefs?

ED BROWN: Oh, of course I would. Yes, no point in doing it unless you're prepared for the consequences.

JANINE COHEN: It's that important to you?

ED BROWN: It is.

JANINE COHEN: What about people, the critics who are going to say, "Look, you're an elderly man who's misguided." What would you say to them?

ED BROWN: Oh, I suppose we're all misguided to a certain extent but I hold my beliefs seriously and conscientiously and they are entitled to hold their beliefs seriously and conscientiously but not to foist them on me.

JANINE COHEN: Is this a relatively new phenomenon - elderly people wanting to opt out at a time of their own choosing?

ED BROWN: I don't think so. I think it's been around for a long time. It's become much more obvious because there are so many more older people.

JANINE COHEN: This is an Exit dinner dance and attending are some of society's most unlikely activists. Civil disobedience is traditionally practised by the young, but this may be changing as the elderly population skyrockets. It seems this is a debate that's not going to go away.