1:       00:02:01:00 00:02:04:06 03:06

After all, the people here were naked.

 

2:       00:02:04:06 00:02:07:23 03:17

They walked down this path...

 

3:       00:02:09:18 00:02:14:08 04:15

...before ending up here,

in the gas chambers.

 

4:       00:02:15:06 00:02:20:02 04:21

Jules Schelvis is one of the last witnesses

who can tell about Sobibor.

 

5:       00:02:20:02 00:02:24:13 04:11

Some 170,000 Jews were murdered

at this extermination camp.

 

6:       00:02:26:05 00:02:29:06 03:01

Yes, I'm one of the few living survivors.

 

7:       00:02:29:06 00:02:33:06 04:00

How many Sobibor victims worldwide

are still alive?

 

8:       00:02:33:06 00:02:36:10 03:04

About eight, I think.

 

9:       00:02:36:10 00:02:38:24 02:14

In total?

- Yes, in total.

 

10:      00:02:43:15 00:02:47:05 03:15

And this man may be the

last surviving camp executioner...

 

11:      00:02:47:05 00:02:52:10 05:05

...who can be held responsible for the

mass murder at Sobibor: John Demjanjuk.

 

12:      00:02:52:10 00:02:55:18 03:08

I can imagine other holocaust trials...

 

13:      00:02:55:18 00:02:59:20 04:02

...but not a big extermination

camp trial anymore.

 

14:      00:02:59:20 00:03:03:04 03:09

This is the last one?

- Yes, it's the last one.

 

15:      00:03:09:05 00:03:14:18 05:13

John Demjanjuk. We've seen him before:

in Israel 20 years ago.

 

16:      00:03:14:18 00:03:19:09 04:16

He was then on trial in Jerusalem

as Ivan the Terrible.

 

17:      00:03:19:09 00:03:24:22 05:13

He was accused of torturing countless

Jews at the Treblinka concentration camp.

 

18:      00:03:26:10 00:03:30:05 03:20

Why must she hear this?

 

19:      00:03:30:05 00:03:33:22 03:17

Why? Why must she?

 

20:      00:03:33:22 00:03:41:06 07:09

Tsippi, what can I do?

I'm your father. Tsippi.

 

21:      00:03:41:06 00:03:46:07 05:01

I am innocent, innocent, innocent.

 

22:      00:03:46:07 00:03:50:07 04:00

The trial lasted seven years,

but took an unexpected turn.

 

23:      00:03:50:07 00:03:53:20 03:13

According to experts,

witnesses identified the wrong man.

 

24:      00:03:53:20 00:03:58:06 04:11

Demjanjuk was not Ivan the Terrible,

and he was released.

 

25:      00:03:58:06 00:04:01:01 02:20

For many Israelis,

this was a national trauma.

 

26:      00:04:04:03 00:04:07:06 03:03

I entered the camp along these tracks.

 

27:      00:04:07:06 00:04:13:21 06:15

In the summer of 1943, Jules Schelvis

arrived at Sobibor concentration camp.

 

28:      00:04:13:21 00:04:17:02 03:06

Miraculously, he managed to survive.

 

29:      00:04:17:02 00:04:21:13 04:11

Unlike his wife Rachel and his in-laws

who, on the day of arrival...

 

30:      00:04:21:13 00:04:24:01 02:13

...ended up in the gas chambers.

 

31:      00:04:24:01 00:04:29:05 05:04

I think of her a lot.

 

32:      00:04:32:21 00:04:35:05 02:09

Such a young life.

 

33:      00:04:37:03 00:04:41:19 04:16

After the war, only a few camp guards

ever stood trial.

 

34:      00:04:41:19 00:04:46:06 04:12

Jules Schelvis had given up hope that

those responsible would be punished...

 

35:      00:04:46:06 00:04:49:13 03:07

...for what he and countless other Jews

had suffered.

 

36:      00:04:49:13 00:04:52:08 02:20

Until he received a report from America.

 

37:      00:04:56:02 00:05:00:00 03:23

John Demjanjuk, once thought

to be Ivan the Terrible...

 

38:      00:05:00:00 00:05:04:10 04:10

...filmed at home in bed. The Americans

want to deport him to Germany.

 

39:      00:05:04:10 00:05:08:21 04:11

To stand trial for being

a Sobibor camp guard.

 

40:      00:05:08:21 00:05:12:14 03:18

Jules Schelvis himself

can't remember Demjanjuk.

 

41:      00:05:12:14 00:05:17:23 05:09

We didn't look at the SS guards,

or the other guards...

 

42:      00:05:17:23 00:05:20:21 02:23

...as we had other things on our minds.

 

43:      00:05:20:21 00:05:25:12 04:16

We paid no attention to them

or to their names.

 

44:      00:05:25:12 00:05:32:21 07:09

Besides the industrial killing machine

operating in Sobibor...

 

45:      00:05:32:21 00:05:35:13 02:17

...nothing else happened.

 

46:      00:05:35:13 00:05:39:20 04:07

Only the murder of people?

- Just murder.

 

47:      00:05:39:20 00:05:44:15 04:20

Johannes Houwink ten Cate

is a genocide expert.

 

48:      00:05:44:15 00:05:47:17 03:02

He's been tracking Demjanjuk

since his trial in Israel.

 

49:      00:05:47:17 00:05:50:24 03:07

He says the German authorities

now have very solid evidence...

 

50:      00:05:50:24 00:05:54:14 03:15

...that Demjanjuk was a guard at Sobibor.

 

51:      00:05:54:14 00:06:00:09 05:20

He's accused of being part

of a group...

 

52:      00:06:00:09 00:06:05:01 04:17

...who helped to operate

the industrial killing machine.

 

53:      00:06:05:01 00:06:07:07 02:06

That's the basic accusation.

 

54:      00:06:07:07 00:06:11:07 04:00

John Demjanjuk originally

came from the Ukraine.

 

55:      00:06:11:07 00:06:14:22 03:15

At first, he fought with the Russians

against the Nazis.

 

56:      00:06:14:22 00:06:18:23 04:01

After being captured by the Germans,

he volunteered to work for them.

 

57:      00:06:18:23 00:06:21:22 02:24

He ended up as a guard at Sobibor.

 

58:      00:06:23:09 00:06:30:08 06:24

Ukrainians were needed when prisoners

arrived on the station platform.

 

59:      00:06:30:08 00:06:36:16 06:08

It was common practice there

to use whips and rifle butts...

 

60:      00:06:36:16 00:06:40:03 03:12

...to beat the prisoners.

 

61:      00:06:40:03 00:06:43:00 02:22

The prisoners who were too ill...

 

62:      00:06:43:00 00:06:48:24 05:24

...were taken to the gas chambers

by lorry.

 

63:      00:06:48:24 00:06:55:03 06:04

Others were taken to a quiet place

at the camp and shot dead.

 

64:      00:06:55:03 00:06:59:09 04:06

Prisoners were executed

for the slightest thing.

 

65:      00:06:59:09 00:07:02:10 03:01

Besides what went on

in the gas chambers.

 

66:      00:07:02:10 00:07:07:17 05:07

Then a squad of Ukrainians

would step forward...

 

67:      00:07:07:17 00:07:14:24 07:07

...and on the instructions of the SS,

they shot the Jews in question.

 

68:      00:07:14:24 00:07:21:11 06:12

So they were the subordinates.

The SS guards were the bosses.

 

69:      00:07:37:04 00:07:41:23 04:19

John Demjanjuk has always denied

ever being in a concentration camp.

 

70:      00:07:41:23 00:07:46:14 04:16

His family did all they could to stop

his deportation to Germany.

 

71:      00:08:02:04 00:08:07:00 04:21

Should an 89-year-old stand trial?

 

72:      00:08:07:00 00:08:10:12 03:12

After all, he's an old man.

- Yes, I think he should.

 

73:      00:08:10:12 00:08:15:15 05:03

There is no statute of limitation

for the crimes committed there.

 

74:      00:08:15:15 00:08:21:17 06:02

The families of the victims

want justice too.

 

75:      00:08:21:17 00:08:26:09 04:17

They want to see him publicly convicted.

 

76:      00:08:26:09 00:08:31:18 05:09

So we must also consider

the feelings of these people.

 

77:      00:08:31:18 00:08:39:04 07:11

Dr Schelvis has nightmares in which

he sees his wife and in-laws murdered.

 

78:      00:08:39:04 00:08:42:17 03:13

The duration of Dr Schelvis's suffering...

 

79:      00:08:42:17 00:08:46:21 04:04

...is the duration that Ivan Demjanjuk

has been responsible.

 

80:      00:08:46:21 00:08:50:22 04:01

But that responsibility

must be proved in a law court.

 

81:      00:08:50:22 00:08:57:13 06:16

That is justice. It is not revenge.

Justice means giving a precise account...

 

82:      00:08:57:13 00:09:02:17 05:04

...of events and Demjanjuk's personal

responsibility for this in a court of law.

 

83:      00:09:02:17 00:09:05:22 03:05

Then justice will prevail, in my view.

 

84:      00:09:05:22 00:09:07:21 01:24